"I Worry About Life, Will It Ever Be the Same For Me Again": Kanhaiya Kumar

NEW DELHI: As journalists know, it is always interesting and more informative at times to re-visit an individual, or an event, or a venue after as Shakespeare put it, when the hurly burly’s done, when the battle is lost and won. And so it was with Jawaharlal Nehru Students Union President Kanhaiya Kumar when The Citizen decided to visit him after his dramatic arrest, his release, and his fiery speech as soon as he came out that has added new muscle to youth power with the courageous articulation of aspirations and hope.

Kanhaiya is seeking to keep his head above muddied waters, a little confused, rather perplexed, and seeking to adjust to a complete life change that leaves him worried as well. He finds new critics from within, as factionalism always just below the surface in the Left surfacing often with him as the target, even as his friends and organisation in JNU embrace him and ensure that he is under their protection every second of the day. It is these young boys and girls who answer the telephone, who screen appointments, and who ensure that the setting is safe and secure for the young man who remains under threat from those seeking to impose their version of ‘nationalism’ through violence.

This interview is to find out how a young student, from a relatively small students outfit, is coping after his release. Is he as passionate as he was when he came out to give that soul stirring speech in JNU? Is he scared? Is he worried? Does he have a plan? Is he struck by his own stardom? Has he changed? Does he (with all the others of course) have a plan? Where now?

Kanhaiya is busy as the JNUSU president dealing with some administrative problems of a co-student. He arrives a little late, with two friends escorting him. A little wary as he walks into the dingy guest room of the hostel where we are meeting, he relaxes quickly. There is no sign of the stardom some fellow students jealously accuse him of, just a youth struggling to cope with the isolation of his existence, and the knowledge that life will never be the same for him again.

Excerpts from a long wheeling conversation:

Q. Was there any point after your arrest, and while you were in custody that you experienced deep fear, you were terrified?

A. There was this one point where i felt they might kill me. On Feb 17, at the Patiala House courts when they attacked me. I felt that I was in deep danger because I could see the huge police bandobust, at that time I had no idea of what was going on outside. All senior officials were there. There was one section of the police who wanted to save me, that I have to say honestly. I told NHRC that also. The policemen who brought me from the jail to the courts they were beaten up as well, the spectacles of one of them was smashed, as they tried to protect me. I cannot deny this. But there was a lapse on the part of those who had the prime responsibility.Why did they bring me from Gate 4 when all the preparations to bring me had been made at Gate 3?Then the way I was surrounded, those who were beating me could have shot me also. Those people were completely prepared.

We talk of the Constitution, of justice but there is a big section that wants to take law into its own hands. And it is not just the police that supports this particular mindset, but also television channels.

Then when they took me back to Tihar jail, that too was also very dramatic. They first sent out a dummy. Then they created a ‘green corridor’ where we moved to Tihar jail in a convoy without a single red light along the way. In the court I felt my life was in serious danger also because of the way the police were talking. They were issuing instructions to shoot at sight, to carry tear gas, it all made me think that there was a very real danger.

Q. And now do you still feel scared at times, considering that the threat to your life remains?

A. In jail I was not scared but I was very worried. I felt that perhaps I will never be able to lead a normal life. After coming back to JNU also I realised I cannot move around alone, someone is there all the time with me, the private space has all gone. When I see the bus my instinct is to hop on to it. Two days ago the police returned my wallet. And I found a slip that I had got on applying for a new metro card as the old one was damaged. And the first thought that came was , do i need this any more? Will I ever be able to ride the metro again?

Everytime I try to be normal something happens. Like just the day before I went to the Coffee House outside the campus for a meeting. I realised after this experience that I cannot attend meetings outside.

Q. Why, what happened?

A. One, there was a huge police bandobust. Your normal movement is finished. Then, even now people say something abusive from close, or a distance, “slap him”, “hit him”.

Q. What happened this time?

A. Just as I was entering the place a man said from behind, “slap him, slap him, he is an anti national (desh drohi). Then everyone is staring at you. That bothers me a lot. Now the phase of fear has passed, but the worry remains. Will I ever be able to live normally again?

Q. When you came out from jail and gave that speech in JNU, had you thought about it? Was it a kind of policy decision to take on the establishment despite the threats?

A. No, no. That was just a continuation. I was doing my best to keep in dialogue while I was in jail, with the police, the man who brought the food, the doctor who did the medical checks. I was trying to convince them that what happened was not wrong in JNU, yes wrong slogans were raised but even that was not sedition. I just went on to say the same things at JNU.

You know my mother used to always tell me, “beta there is one basic difference between a lie and the truth. You have to memorise the lie, never the truth. “

Q. Why did you decide not to campaign for the CPI in these elections? There is this criticism that you are not even acknowledging your party?

A. I always resent… Look, I am not a member of the Communist Party of India. I always say that. I am a student member of the All India Students Federation. If it was a cadre generating body I would not be a member of the AISF even. I like it because it is an independent mass organisation. And as such it should have a dialectical relationship but cannot be dictated to by the CPI. Earlier, in my JNU presidential speech I criticised Atul Kumar Anjan (CPI leader) on his remarks against Sunny Leone. The Left parties no longer give sufficient space to the mass organisations, they have in the process stopped the movement as it were. For many the mass organisations are just about getting some cadres, nothing more..

I am a student, I want to remain a student. I am not a spokesperson of the CPI. I don’t want to defend the USSR, Nandigram. It is for them to defend it. I am answerable for the politics of AISF and I am very proud of being a member of an organisation that fought for the azadi of the nation. When I talk of Gandhi, of Nehru this is not any tactical move, this is my legacy. Nehru and Jinnah presided over the first AISF conference in Lucknow and we received letters from Gandhi and Tagore. This is our legacy. All this cadre-ised, regimental, bureaucrat party structure, that some like to work in, I have a problem with this.

Q. And the CPI is giving you the space? What about your meeting with Rahul Gandhi?

A. Yes. I don’t think the CPI is bothered.

Not one program of mine has been under The AISF banner till now. After being released, I met with Sudhakar Reddy (CPI general secretary), i met Sitaram Yechury (CPI(M), i met Dipankar Bhattacharya (CPI-ML), and I met Rahul Gandhi. But only that was reported. What can i do, the media has its own TRP logic, what can i do about that?

Q. Another criticism oft heard is you have become larger than life, a star? And that comes from your own people?

A. A friend of mine came, pushed me and said “you have become a star”. And i said “i don’t know what i have become, but whatever i have become i have no role in that. I was not the organiser of that meeting (at the JNU campus) ; I did not ask the police come and arrest me; and I have no connections with the media to influence their decision to report.

Everyone has a logic. The government’s logic was to catch hold of a person from a small organisation AISF, an upper caste and not a Dalit (for obvious reasons after HCU), they could arrest Umar (Khalid) in the first instance as then they would be charged with always targeting Muslims, so they chose me to establish that be it a Dalit, a Brahmin, a Muslim, a Hindu they would not make any compromise on the issue of ‘nationalism’. And they have managed to establish that very successfully. That is why they arrested me.

I had not done anything wrong so I did not run away. And they caught me. The narrative changed somewhat only after the Patiala court violence, where even the media was not spared.

You know, I keep telling my Kerala colleagues you will win the elections but you will not be able to defeat fascism.They will deploy the Army in Kerala saying you are a Naxalite government. You do not know fascism. Some say there is no difference between Brahmanism and Fascism. That mean you know nothing, not even the F of Fascism.

Q. Another criticism is that you said nothing about Anirban and Umar Khalid after being released from jail, and while they were still inside?

A. I did.

Q. Are they friends of yours?

A. Yes they are friends. They are political friends. Before this I did not know Umar’s house was in Delhi. I did not know Anirbans father was teaching in a college. We were in the movement as political allies.

But this criticism ended after they were released. Because they said nothing about the freedom of Kashmir, nothing in favour of Afzal Guru,nothing about self determination. This was very interesting, as what they said was part of the left liberal democratic line that I had taken before them. I did take Umar and Anirban’s names, I raised slogans for their release repeatedly, I spoke about them. But yes, for me it is far more important to name those who were responsible for their arrests, from whom we want to save our country. Individuals do not matter as much. After all it is more important to speak of the system that put everyone in jail, than of those who are in jail.

I did not speak of Geelani (Prof SAR Geelani who was in jail on sedition charges at the time but now is free on bail) as it does not fit in my responsibility, as one, he is not from JNU. And two, if we are against sedition then there are many who have been arrested under this law, so we have to raise our voice against all and the law itself.

I felt that this was a kind of political trap being created by the police.

Q.By the police?

A. They want to link Kanhaiya to Geelani, “see, see they have a relationship”; link me with Afzal Guru as the individual. I will speak against the system of injustice and anyone and everyone who has suffered because of it, i am speaking of all, not categorically of any one or two persons.

This is their trap. They tried to make Rohith Vemula the ‘yaar’ (buddy) of Maqbool Butt. The entire nation is speaking against the death penalty but they started calling some JNU students as the “Afzal Guru gang”; they started calling our teachers “the Afzal Guru gang”, they have put our teachers under surveillance. For us issues, principles are more important than to get ensnared in their trap.

Q. It is certainly not usual for student leaders to be pushed onto the national platform as it were in this manner. This in itself is an opportunity perhaps. How do you plan, or do you plan, to stitch together a national students movement?

A. Yes our focus will be on three things: Unite Left forces not left parties. There is a difference, left force can be even a person who is not a member of any party but is progressive and against the establishment. He can be an Ambedkarite, or a Marxist, or a progressive liberal; we have all been trying for this for a long time. We did form a Left Progressive Front in one election but it did not last. If Left and progressive forces do not come together ABVP will get the seats. This happened in JNU where they got one seat, and showed that just give us room to place our feet and we will throw you people out from here. Now this threat is being understood by everyone.

Two, primarily members of any organisation should be responsible for it. i am a member of the AISF for instance, so, primarily i am responsible for the students. I am not responsible for any Bhawan (reference to party headquarters). i have never defended any political party blindly, if we didn’t like anything the party has done, we criticised it even with pamphlets. We should as students do principled politics and be responsible directly for the organisations we represent.

And three, democratise decision making. It should not be ‘my’ plan, it should be ‘our’plan. We decided at a meeting that organisations will not take decisions for the students, everyone together will. We will be hilding a university general body on April 10 where we will analyse the movement, and will invite suggestions as to how to make it a nation wide movement. We will incorporate these suggestions that will also give a stake to everyone in the decision making process, there will be an interactive lively relationship, it will not be imposed.

Q. So what is the change you are looking at? Where will it come from?

A. The change has to come from the public funded central Universities. In the economic environment today,the working class, the toiling masses, the proletariat are too scattered. There is a concentration, however, in the universities that have to become the centre for change. On two issues: Education and Employment. This is what directly impacts on the students all across the country.

The effort should be not to make an organisation alone, but to make politics. 55% of our population in India is the young.